Many years ago I sat down among friends and we begun to talk at about our struggles in business and how we overcame them. We found each others experiences enriching and decided to get together at least once a week to share our achievements as well as defeats. Shortly our defeats became springboards to new lessons, successes, and achievements.
This podcast wants to continue that feeling by engaging into a light hearted conversation in which our guests will delight us with their life's adventures, defeats and successes and how they got where they stand today.
•Cristobal D. De Nadai Albornoz•Season 1•Episode 9
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Welcome once again to "It's About Time"
Today I have the great pleasure of introducing you to my dear friend Fabio.
Fabio Grilli is a Real Estate Development & Design Advisor whose career spans large-scale real estate development, masterplanning and architectural design across the Middle East and Europe. Combining a strong design background with extensive experience on the developer side, his work focuses on shaping the vision, development strategy and design direction of complex urban and architectural projects.
Born and raised in Italy, Grilli developed an early sensitivity to architecture, landscape and the quality of urban space—an influence that has remained central throughout his career. His professional path has taken him across Italy, The Netherlands and the Middle East, working with international architecture practices, consultants and leading real estate developers before establishing himself in Dubai.
Over the past decade, he held senior leadership roles at EMAAR Properties, one of the world’s leading real estate developers, where he was responsible for the design and development of major residential, mixed-use and masterplanned projects. His work contributed to some of Dubai’s most prominent destinations, including Dubai Creek Harbour, Dubai Hills Estate, Emaar Beachfront and Port Rashid.
At EMAAR, Grilli operated at the intersection of real estate development, design and execution, overseeing projects from their earliest strategic and conceptual stages through design development and delivery. His role involved defining development visions, guiding international consultant teams and ensuring that architectural ambition remained aligned with commercial, functional and long-term urban objectives.
Among the projects that have most shaped his professional experience, Dubai Creek Harbour holds particular significance. Conceived as a major new urban district for Dubai, the development brings together residential neighbourhoods, hospitality, commercial uses, parks, waterfront spaces and cultural destinations at metropolitan scale. Grilli has been closely involved in its evolution over many years, gaining the unusual perspective of seeing masterplanning and architectural decisions move rapidly from concept to construction and, ultimately, into the everyday life of the city.
Today, as Founder of DOMOS, Grilli advises real estate developers, investors and project stakeholders across the Middle East and Europe. Working alongside a network of senior specialists and international design practices, DOMOS provides strategic advice on the vision, development strategy, positioning and design direction of large-scale developments, masterplans and architectural projects.
His approach places design within the wider framework of real estate development. Rather than treating architecture as an isolated discipline, Grilli focuses on the relationship between urban vision, market positioning, product definition, commercial objectives, user experience and long-term value creation. This perspective allows him to bridge the often separate worlds of development strategy and architectural design.
Alongside his professional practice, Grilli is actively involved in academia and the international debate around cities and real estate development. He has lectured and contributed to academic programmes, conferences and professional forums on topics including real estate development, urban transformation, masterplanning, architecture and the future of cities.
His academic engagements include Harvard University, Sciences Po Paris and LUISS Business School. He also holds an academic position at IUAV University of Venice, where he lectures within the Advanced Master “Fare Masterplan”, contributing his experience in large-scale development and contemporary city-making. Through IUAV, Grilli also serves as Special Advisor to the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) on initiatives related to the reconstruction of territories affected by crisis, with a focus on post-crisis urban regeneration, infrastructure planning and resilient development.
His ideas and professional experience have been featured in publications, books, podcasts and international industry platforms, addressing subjects ranging from masterplanning and mixed-use development to architectural quality, urban culture and the relationship between beauty and commercial development. Central to Grilli’s philosophy is the belief that successful real estate development must reconcile economic viability, functional performance and architectural quality. His Italian cultural background continues to inform his conviction that beauty, proportion, landscape and public space are not secondary considerations, but fundamental components of places capable of generating lasting social and economic value.
Now dividing his time between Italy and Dubai, he continues to work across the UAE, the wider MENA region and Europe.
If you want to know more about Fabio you can follow him on linkedin:
Fabio Grilli is Head of Design & Development at Emaar Properties in Dubai, UAE. Overseeing landmark projects like Dubai Creek Harbour, Emaar Beachfront & more. 25+ years experience.
About Fabio Grilli — Leading UAE Architect & Design Director
Fabio Grilli is a renowned senior architect and design executive based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. With over 25 years of luxury architecture and landmark concept design experience, he currently serves as Head of Design & Development at Emaar Properties, one of the world's most prestigious real estate developers.
Current Role: Head of Design & Development at Emaar Properties
As Design Director at Emaar Properties Dubai, Fabio Grilli manages the complete design process from initial concept through consultant supervision to detailed project execution. His responsibilities encompass the development of large-scale masterplans across the UAE, MENA region, and Europe.
Master's Degree in Architecture and Urban Planning — University of Ferrara, Italy
Professional training across international firms in The Netherlands, Italy, and UAE
Years of Experience
25+ years in architectural design and real estate development
Extensive expertise across Middle East and European markets
Key Projects & Achievements
Dubai Creek Harbour — Signature Masterplan
Fabio Grilli identifies Dubai Creek Harbour as his proudest achievement — a transformative district featuring:
700,000 sqm dedicated to parks and public spaces
60,000 sqm for cultural activities
900,000 sqm for commercial uses
5,800 residential units
24 hotels and mixed-use amenities
This development represents a new urban centre reshaping Dubai's skyline and waterfront landscape.
Thought Leadership & Speaking Engagements
Grilli is a sought-after speaker at industry conferences and universities, addressing topics including:
Sustainable design principles
Mixed-use development strategies
Vertical city concepts
Large-scale masterplanning impact
Publications & Media Appearances
PublicationDateFocusSecrets of The Construction Industry | April 2024 | Industry insights Constructing You Podcast | February 2023 | Design leadership Dubai Italia Experiences | November 2022 | Cultural architecture Compasses Magazine | July 2022 | Urban regeneration
Awards & Recognition
Arabian Business Achievement Honoree (2Y)
Recognized among industry titans for design innovation and project leadership excellence
Fabio Grilli's Design Philosophy
"The real added value is having been raised surrounded by the beauty of our urban, landscape and cultural spaces."
Grilli attributes his design sensibility to his Italian heritage, emphasizing that culture and architecture in Dubai are deeply interconnected. His approach prioritizes:
Creating beauty and harmony in contemporary developments
Why was a thunder? So no sales, let's see what's happening. So what they do, they stop, they observe 55 billion dollars investment. That's unbelievable. Everyone is saying.
SPEAKER_01
So I'm not gonna see you for another year.
SPEAKER_00
You all around it. From where you sleep to where you go to school. It's not targeting all the ranges. And it really I didn't choose it, I didn't want to, but it was like came from some podcast 10 projects a year of the caliber of a mark. Of a caliber, 10 projects in a year, two in 2022. Second book was the book by an engineer that becomes a sailor, actually, sailor that rediscovered his passion for sailing after going through 10 years of very intense life in Milan. Simone Perotti.
SPEAKER_02
Hello, everybody, and once again to another episode of It's About Time. I'm your host Chris, and today I'm joined by a good friend of mine. His name is Fabio. He's been living in the Emirates for 13 years, and I am have the great pleasure of introducing him to you. Hi, Fabio.
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Chris. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02
It's good to have you, man. Good to hear you. And uh it's good to catch you. I know you're very, very busy normally, but thank you for making the time to be here today. Big pleasure, really. So let's get started. I know your story, your story is quite amazing, and we met, thankfully, through Michele, who already was uh here, so the audience gets to know him. Um, and um and we met, I think it was uh one of the evenings at my house. Probably it was in your house. Yes, one of the evenings. And that's where we discovered famous parties, yes, one of the famous dinners, the spaghetti. True. Um, and and that during that time, uh, I discovered your talent for music. Oh, yeah, the very hidden one. Well, yeah, for me, it was a whole revelation, to be honest with you. I mean, uh, because you it's not like you play the guitar, you you make the guitar sing, man. You have such a talent with it. I made love to the guitar. Oh, yes, sir, yes, you do. And not that the piano as well, the way you tickle and feather those keys.
SPEAKER_00
These are my very good partners, piano and guitar.
SPEAKER_02
So um, I already obviously told a little bit about how we met and uh and how our relationship started, um, which for me has always been a blessing because every time we get together, just good things happen all the time. Um, but tell us a little bit about your story. So you come from Italy, I do, and I had the fortune of of joining you for your 10th wedding anniversary in Marche.
SPEAKER_00
Very true. So, yeah, Marche, Fermo. Actually, I came to Fermo to Torre di Palma particularly.
SPEAKER_02
What a beautiful place!
SPEAKER_00
That was a cool place to spend time together with friends, and uh yeah, Fermo, that's where uh where I was born. Uh how many years? 40 years ago, yeah. My friend, it's wrong. Uh starting there, um, my mom came actually from Lebanon to deliver me in in Fermo. Uh she came in 1977, so she became quite Italian, married my father. A lucky man. A lucky man, and uh and they actually gave birth to three beautiful kids. I was the middle one, my sister. Uh the first, and my brother the third. So I stayed in Fermi, beautiful town, quite calm.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I would say it's very cool, and and full of medieval architecture. It's literally a medieval town on the hill.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it is. It is uh a town that's on the hill, like many count, many, many towns and cities in in Marque region. They are not very big, but they're very peculiar or different, they all have their own. Right, you have that antiquariat market. Oh, true. Oh, that was very fun because you loved it. So they are little places, very calm, very good to grow. That's why I stayed there and enjoyed my you know, teenage. I did study until 18 years old. Uh had most of my very good old friends there still there. And that's a place where I really love to go back very often, close to the sea, mountains, hillside, beautiful, really beautiful landscape. And I want to ask you.
SPEAKER_02
So, 18 years old, you study there. You did you do an university there as well?
SPEAKER_00
No, I left when I was 18. In Italy, you live at 18, you go to university, and I went to Ferrara. Oh, Ferrara! Yeah, Ferrara studying architecture. But at that time it was very uh renowned, probably the first number one architecture uh university uh in early 2000. The first decade was very popular. And uh yeah, I studied that why architecture? Why architect- Oh, that's uh that's an important one. You know, I I know architecture because architecture. Um architecture because I basically I it's kind of a mix in between the uh artistic soul that I took from my mom. My mom is an artist, and the very rational mathematician side of my my dad. My dad is a biologist and math professor, used to be now in retirement. I forgot. So I I fell in between these two fires, and architecture seemed to be the good combination to bring up these two, you know, very different sides, but at the same time, you know, you have the artistic creative side with the lots of uh science in it, and of course. And my uncles, three of them are engineers, so that brought me to you know to choose a path that was not too far from from them as well.
SPEAKER_03
Okay, very nice.
SPEAKER_00
Two uncle uncles actually. One in the United States, one in used to work in uh Abu Dhabi, and the other one in Italy. So very different stories, but all them.
SPEAKER_02
Okay, so architecture it was then in Ferrara. Yeah. And uh and uh w when when did the music start?
SPEAKER_00
Oh, the music started very early. I'd say I was 10, 11, and I and I had a fantastic professor at school that basically uh you could have chosen the typical flute. Everybody was who didn't have a a great passion would play flute. And that guy, that professor Maurizio, he gave me the chance to play guitar because he knew how to play guitar, and I started downloading all the lyrics and music and copying discs from friends masterizzatore. At the time was like a pirate thing, you know. Of course, and listen starting to listen to music, and I was spending lots of time in my little bedroom and playing and singing and playing and singing until I found good friends to create a band with. You had a band, I had a band called The Boys of Love.
SPEAKER_03
Oh man!
SPEAKER_00
And we had sunglasses at heart shapes. We were doing like uh oasis, Beatles, and Brit pop in general, and classics, rocks.
SPEAKER_01
That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00
That was a fun time. Teenager uh with three very good friends, we were four, and um yeah, and that kept going. I actually started the courts the conservatorium playing guitar.
SPEAKER_02
Not only did you liked it as a passion, you went all the way through with proper education.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, because it was really the the greatest passion. I used to play football as well, but music was.
SPEAKER_02
How did you balance the two? Because I know conservatorio is not an easy school.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, my professors at school didn't like that. I was doing that because it was taking more time and more uh you know, more energy because you know, the solfeggio, the Doremi fussel. And uh it but it was that was coming out of passion, so I started you really diving into the guitar and the music theory and starting playing piano. My sister used to play piano, and I I would basically replay what she was playing, like uh, you know, uh, and that was my thing. So, until when I was 18 years old, I spent a whole week with selected musicians from Marche Region, a whole week uh with Mauro Pagani. Mauro Pagani, one of the biggest, greatest, I would say, musician, polymusician, poly instrumentist in Italy. He founded a PFM Premiata Forneri Marconi. He he did records with DeAndre and many others. So in 2004, we spent one full week re-recording uh Cresa de Ma, uh, an album that was written and published uh 20 years before, so 18 uh sorry, 1984. So he's chosen some musicians and he spent like a seminary of one week rearranging and playing it live, and that was to me the the highest peak of my musical career. And I was really into a different world. Uh after that week I had to subscribe to university, and I was like, shall I follow this man? Or shall I shall I stalk that man and and give him my mixtapes done in my bedroom, uh having a very small chance of doing things, or shall I start my you know, uh architecture career. Career, let's study and then let's see how it goes. So at that time I'd say I've chosen not to make it into a profession, music, and started.
SPEAKER_02
So I guess that's that's where the rationale coming from your father kicked in.
SPEAKER_00
Correct, precisely. I probably he also told me, yeah, get a get a degree. Get a degree, make some money, and then play the guitar. Yeah, yeah, but in the meantime, he knew that was what a conflict though. It's it's a positive conflict that stayed alive in throughout my life all time. Of course, when when you're younger, you tend to have that side of yourself that's a bit more irrational.
SPEAKER_02
A bit more of the grasshopper side. You want to go and you wanna enjoy, you want to live, you wanna do.
SPEAKER_00
Yes, yes, you wanna do, and you don't think of uh of the you know of paying the bills or the responsibilities that will come with time, the family, and the things you think hey, having a guitar uh on a beach in you know around a fire pit, it it's the best thing that can happen to my life at this moment, which is still I agree, but you know, there are other things that come alongside which are still good, but you know, if you manage to balance them uh in a way that doesn't make you too frustrated, but it gives you what you need at the right time. For example, taking I remember during COVID, I was thinking of uh actually not COVID, I was in Amsterdam uh because after university, after these five years of university in Ferrara, I moved to Amsterdam.
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
SPEAKER_00
And uh I for a month of my probably that's the only one month of my life that after graduation, after degree, after getting uh finishing my studies, I did not work until now. So that was the only month except for COVID. Uh so you took like a month sabbatical. That's the month sabbatical. Uh that was just waiting for getting the you know the contract done. And that month I recorded whatever I had written uh during the past 15 years, or let's say 10 years, and I still remember that as a counterbalance of my career that was very short, intense, but very meaningful. So I still listen to those records, and that reminds me that it's good to make time and give time to your own passions and hobbies whenever you can. Yes, even if it's a short time, okay. I'm not a musician, uh let's say professional musician, but I gave time when I could.
SPEAKER_02
And of course, the next part is every time every time I spoke uh with somebody about their passions, their passions always bring them back to that moment of happiness and and cheerfulness and carefree that they had uh in their youth because most passions are born when you're young. Uh you become a child again. And I believe this happens to you when you're there uh enjoying your music, playing your guitar, you go back in time and you're free again. Which is which is a fantastic thing, and and I believe everybody should have a passion and nurture their passion, take care of it.
SPEAKER_00
And recognize what you really like. Correct. Take time also to recognize what you like, because it may be that you like you know football a lot, she like you like music, you like cooking, you like anything, and you don't give the right time and in and you know you don't put the right effort also to nurture that passion. Which I I I feel is um it's really a shame if you don't listen to what you really want to do. Of course, life took me to you know to spend lots of time at work, uh growing, especially here in Dubai, from a young architect that I was in 2013. I did grow up, I don't want to burn all your meistons, but uh the storytelling of this story. But I it took it's your story. But I it took me um you know some times to get there. And when I also started feeling that my efforts on uh you know as an architect was bringing me, were bringing me to to a very satisfactory uh level, I also enjoyed it. You know, work is very enjoyable now, and I really can consider that also part of my passions. But I I don't want to overtake, I don't want to overthrow what's the king, which is music.
SPEAKER_02
I I understand, and and I understand exactly what you mean. I I have had many passions throughout my life. Um, painting, uh now jewelry, for example, uh, my motorcycles, uh and and each one of them has a specific spot in my life. Music has always been a constant in my life. Obviously, I never pursue a career in music, or I never pursue formal education like you, um, but it has always been present with me uh since my childhood. It was something I I adored, and singing was always something that I really, really loved. I'm a shower singer, but it's my thing.
SPEAKER_00
Well, I s I wasn't the shower, I wasn't in the shower with you. No, but I did listen to your beautiful voice. I mean, now you can actually uh listen to your voice even when you're talking that it's a very deep and profound, you know, it's very, very pleasant, but when you sing and you put that different upper layer of interpretation to it, it's something that is really good. So uh it's not professional, but you know, I don't think that it wouldn't be too far from being that you know level.
SPEAKER_02
I it's you are the reason why I started singing. Really? Yes.
SPEAKER_00
You were singing in the shower first, and then you came out of the shower.
SPEAKER_02
Well, I did a little bit of choir when I was in military school, but uh you are the reason, particularly, you and Michele creating the atmosphere at home. It's just and and and I know this, I recognize this. Uh we if I wouldn't have met you guys, I would have still been a shower singer. But it's thanks to you guys that that you brought it out of me, and uh hanging out with you that you you brought music into my life again. That's such a beautiful thing. But it is the truth, really.
SPEAKER_00
Because actually, uh music lovers we we have still the need of uh uh performing in a way, whether it's with a very small crowd of slightly bigger, uh dinners, parties, barbecues are always the right time to do it. And this is actually what you're what you're saying, and the moments that you've created at the villa and the pamphers and JLT, and now and what claim uh all these moments are uh the actual moments when you say they bring you back to you when when you're kidding these are the light motive of my musical soul. When I was in Fermo, Porto San Giorgio on the beach. We used to you know sing and play guitars on the beach. When I go to Ferrara, uh it was the thing, you know, you sit on a square in front of the cathedral till late, and that's that was the thing when I was in Prague, when I was in Amsterdam. These are always the moments where you actually give yourself you ex I uh for me, I was expressing myself the most, you know, more with the most intent intensity. Uh here in Dubai, there are not many moments and occasions for that. Your dinners, the barbecues, the these moments are the ones that that's why they they bring me back to to the beautiful times of my lives, which are always present. And so, and then we're gonna probably keep doing it forever.
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah, man. This this started, it ain't gonna stop until one of us, either both or me, I'm on the ground. So don't worry, we'll continue this.
SPEAKER_00
And uh, if you combine it with a passion of barbecuing, then it's gonna be it's it's a good manual. It's a good combo.
SPEAKER_02
So yeah, we went to Prague, and I assumed uh from what you said, I understood that this is where you uh had your first job in our Prague.
SPEAKER_00
No, I was during my studies in university, it was the one year of uh of Erasmus. Uh over there I met Maria, and uh yeah, it was uh uh it was a beautiful year. It was you know coming from the let's say the small reality in Italy, yeah. Ferrara, it's kind of a medium city, medium-sized city. Fermo is a small town, maybe 30, not small, it's a province, it's like 35,000, 40,000. But you know, going abroad, spending a whole year uh out of your country, your home country, and uh you know, fostering you know the language, speaking, meeting all the people, uh you know, being in that mix. I I used to live with a French guy, a guy from Tahiti, a guy from uh the people that you never met in Fermo. People that you never met in Fermo, maybe you would meet them in Ferrara because the other Erasmus are coming. Yes, yeah, so the Erasmus program is amazing, by the way. Yeah, I really that changed my my life. And um and from Prague, met my future wife, and uh from Prague I decided to I I had to go back to Italy for the let's say for starting the upcoming year, yes, but I wanted to prolongate a little bit that international vibe. So I decided in 2008 to spend the whole summer doing uh traineeship in an architectural office, and that's where I decided to go for that summer only in Abu Dhabi, where my uncle George, by the way, uh kind of uh a reference point in my life, not just for that, because he is an engineer in the construction field, but he was like is a very cool uh dude. My uncle George lives in Abu Dhabi. George from Lebanon? From Lebanon. Oh, yeah, for sure. He's a cool dude. He's he came very often to Italy, he was you know bringing us the that uh you know that vibe of international uh spirit coming at Christmas time, also meeting him and all the whole family, uh, Sonia, Maggie, uh Heisen, all of my cousins there my age. It's always been a feast when we met together. So I decided okay, let's spend a couple of months in Abu Dhabi. He'll host me, he'll show me what does it mean construction, the proper construction with Capital C in Abu Dhabi in 2008, right before the crisis. Um, and I spent that two months that probably changed my life because I then, and by the way, in that summer, I also spent a good month in Beirut where my cousins uh and ruba uh they really showed me what means what it means to party. Oh, yeah, party hard Beirut. And that uh that year, I still think that with all the troubles, it's still a fun place. But that year, at my age, at our age, it was really the best place to be. I remember this rave or concept of uh above and beyond. Uh it was very Very cool. So I stayed there for two months. I basically it was a vision. You know, imagine you come from Europe, you do that project for a year. Uh you studied very well, you do a lot of ideas, YouTubeistic things. I came to Abu Dhabi, and the things were actually happening. Oh god, this is the future. At a speed that you would never see. Yeah. So I still get amazed here. It's still after 13 years, I'm still amazed. So go back to Italy, finish the studies. After the studies, I thought, okay, should I go back to UAE? And someone recommended me to some more European um you know experience. Because once you come here, you will switch off your uh learning or let's say your educational part, and you'll just start doing. So I wanted to uh still do things and explore the northern Europe that has always been a beacon for architects, you know, the best architecture, Netherlands, Denmark. So I went to Amsterdam, um, Maria as well, and we spent there two years, two and a half, one and a half year. I was coming and coming to Florence also because of another job. But anyway, after Amsterdam, it was a very good chapter of my life as well. I I was called back from the Italian office who had the business in Dubai. So they offered me, Hey, do you want to go to Dubai? I know that you you've been there, you're more familiar. I said, Yes. Yes. Again, luggage radio cool flight 2013 started with one of the best office in Italy, actually, Arkea. They did uh Antino Rewinery, yeah, very, very, very cool one. And for two years working for them, and then I've met the MR, MR World, which was also an upper grade. That was a bit different, right? That was a bit different. I understood okay, here things are starting to get serious. These are the big boys, very serious, big volumes, big master plans, big projects. And from then on, I really started diving into work, profession, architecture, growing, and uh and building up a career that uh I would say I'm I'm I'm quite happy about after eight years at Imre.
SPEAKER_02
If if I may, yeah, the way I see IMR compared to other developers is um I think other developers build compounds, they build buildings, uh towers. MR builds cities. Yeah, they build a complete working infrastructure where thousands of individuals can go and and colonize this place because it's it's a city. Yeah. I I every single project I have seen from them in the past ten years has been a complete solution. True. And uh and this for me it's it's a I don't know, it's like SimCity, you know? Like I have this this map, and okay, we're gonna have this, this, this, this, and and they just set it up.
SPEAKER_00
It's it's a it's an all-around solution, as you say. Correct, it's like a community, we don't call it you know, neighborhoods. They're communities that have everything in it, correct.
SPEAKER_02
All the services, schooling, uh they have their own uh power plants, they have the everything. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00
So you basically build a a set, a movie set for a real life. So you all around it, from from where you sleep to where you go to school, to where you go shopping, to where you have entertainment, where you spend your leisure time, uh, dinner, and meet your lover, and uh, you know, meet friends and take spend time. Basically, it's a recreation, it's a creation, not recreation, because in the end, it's a model that probably started 20-30 years ago, taking from the best of other cities, you know, coping a little bit from Miami, from uh uh from Paris, from here in the beginning was really uh take that and put it together. By uh the time that you know MR started growing very rapidly, and the city started growing very rapidly, that model became a very original model. So when people say uh this feels fake, that that's actually uh some type of construction and planning model that we are actually exporting now somewhere else. So it's an all, as you say, all at once, all around type of life solution that is available uh for any type of target, any type of uh pockets. It's not very expensive. Okay, of course, uh it's not targeting the all the ranges, like the extreme ranges, but I would say middle class, so most of the people in Dubai can afford to live there. I live there, you've been living there. Uh and I feel really that made me feel really proud because you start designing it. By the time you design, they already start building it, preparing the ground. Yeah, you keep designing and you see it growing. I and it's oh that that's what I did. Oh, I did a mistake. Yeah, it's not doing the next one.
SPEAKER_02
It's like the loading page, and you're trying to catch up with the speed at the one point.
SPEAKER_00
Correct, correct. So uh designing and having the the pleasure and uh let's say the the luck to see what you're designing being built, it's not something that you see commonly anywhere anywhere else in the world. At that speed, at that pace, at that um uh in that scale. So I live in a city now. I have to say, I can say I live in a city where I recognize a lot of things that we did with our team did. Now I I work in the office that we've designed five years ago, and from that office I see buildings that are growing, and they've been designed by people around me, myself, my team. So, and that that gives you that uh it's not just enthusiasm, it's it's really adrenaline. But can we call it also pride? Pride, pride, pride. And it's something that keeps you going. You know, during these 13 years in Dubai, we were as a family called back called back to Italy. We guys we wanted to go back just to say, okay, let's see how it goes. You know, let's try to work in Italy before saying that that's not a good place. We were almost starting, we were starting to work in Italy, and things were happening so fast in in Dubai that they called me back. They just said, Hey hey Fabio, where are you? Where have you been? I'm in Italy. Hey, I left. Uh we need we need you for this project. Are you are you in? And I said, So imagine you're are you're at a different pace. The train goes very fast in in UAE. You are in Milan, which is supposed to be the you know, the most efficient, the fastest place in Italy, but you are on a 500 compared to that. Oh, yeah. And the passing by and say, Hey Fabio, you wanna still jump in? I said, okay. If I say no in 2018-19, if I say no this time, it's gonna be almost all probably a no forever with MR. So I jumped back on the same train, and that started to grow even faster because after COVID, you know, Dubai was the country that was uh basically recovering and boosting much, much faster than that. It was it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. So that thing, so imagine it was to me, I call it it. I was re-ox uh basically it was a year of not a sabbatic year because we were working, but it was a a year to basically reset my energies, slow down a little bit, and then again jump again into the fast-growing Dubai. How do you keep up? 2020? From 2020 until now, I've seen things that you human beings can't. I know, man. I haven't seen you, to be honest with you. Yeah, we haven't seen. I I I don't remember what I've done really. It's it's it was very it was amazing. This last past five years we broke all the records. We went from 10 projects, which is a lot still, 10 projects a year, to of the caliber of MR. Of a caliber of 10 projects in a year, to in 2000 in 2022, to 770 projects in a year launched and both basically purchased, sold out. So imagine by by the way, same people, same team, same thing, just more efficient outsourcing being. So imagine that became some somehow the more you did, the more you do, the more you feel passionate, the more you feel obsessed in doing, and that's obviously Imar's chairman. Is a visionary is I would say uh his visions because he really had to be the target always higher and higher.
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you have to be the guy that sees the thing that others don't.
SPEAKER_00
Exactly. He sees the things, okay, not just him, although the management here in Dubai. They they are in a you know challenging situation, such as COVID. Of course, and they do crazy things to you know stand up again. Now, in this context, since the 28th of February, people went scared. Me too. Everyone's like, What's gonna happen now? The drones are coming. And um, so no sales, let's see what's happening. So, what they do, they they they stop, they observe, and just a few days ago, the boss comes up with a new master plan of 55 billion dollars investment. That's in that's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01
Everyone is saying So I'm not gonna see you for another year.
SPEAKER_00
I I I don't know. I mean that people yesterday they were calling me people in insiders, you know, they were calling me, hey, what's going on? What's this master? I said, I know that we've been preparing it, and now we need to unveil it to the world. And he didn't wait for everything to be settled, he just doesn't wait, and we will do and and do because and that's and you learn by doing how to run at that pace. And that's you know, that's why I also sometimes I forget about my other sides because you don't really have time, it's not it's not a choice most of the time, it's really that you don't have time to stop by and take time and and uh and choose what to do because you need to do, otherwise things get not get done. Although two years ago or a year ago, I don't remember. I was with friends, family and family friends in Thailand in a very remote place. I think it was Kukuud or something like that. Okay, very remote place. I don't know, five hours from Bangkok. We get there, it was Eid time, nobody was working. The mobile network was not really available there. Oh, bless you from the guy at the same time. You were not thinking, hey, I'm not I don't have coverage, no stress because then nobody's working. So that was another week time, like the month sabbatic time in Amsterdam. Another week time to stop and think and read a book, simply actually in that that week I've read two books, maybe three. One was, and they were surprisingly accidentally all about slowing down. And it really, I didn't choose it, I didn't want to, uh but it was like came from some podcast, I don't know, some uh referral from people from friends, and I start reading this book, De Brevita Vite by Seneca, so about the short shortage of life, yes, which is about this uh old senator that decides to take time in his life and go basically uh do agriculture at his 60s, and he suggests he recommends um um basically Seneca saying to this let's send a letter to a politician in Rome, ancient Rome, 2000 years ago. They had the same problems, just that the problem wasn't WhatsApp and uh email everywhere, it was about very intense political life of Rome. You don't have time to appreciate what you're making, you don't have time to appreciate people around you. So he was saying, Hey, you've got a certain age, take your time, go to your countryside house and start working on your olive trees. That was by Seneca, so it was said slightly better things. But that that was the message, and it was a very small I really recommend you the Brevita Vite. Uh and I was there in Thailand, my feet on the water, cocktails, uh family was already taking care of themselves, but nobody was complaining. No, no really problems around us. Uh, second book was a book by uh an engineer that becomes a sailor, actually, sailor, that rediscovered his passion for sailing after going through 10 years of very intense life in Milan. Uh Simone Perotti. The book is uh Adesso Basta. And then I've read Rhapsodia Mediterranean even better. So basically, say okay, from uh this moment onward, I'm gonna take care of myself. And I'm gonna I'm not gonna suffer hunger. I'm I will plan it very wisely, very well, and I will I'll start re-prioritizing, resetting priorities, and and uh basically leveraging on my true soul what I really want to do. So basically, these two books, the situation, the context, put something in my mind, and uh that made me think that probably it's it's time to reconsider forcing myself to spend more time uh with the family.
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
Home, you know, at home. We I've got you know, parents, brothers, friends, uh enjoying the countryside house. Going back to the roots, the theater. The theater, yes, enjoying those type of things. What you have worked for to to build. Yes, exactly. Because you do, you do, you do, you do, and then when whenever when do you enjoy it?
SPEAKER_02
Like Seneca said, your olive tree.
SPEAKER_00
Your olive trees, and that was surprisingly true in my life. So uh that's that's not like okay, I'll I'll I'll uh I'll stop everything and I'll do the uh you know the monk life, the monk's life. No, um it's about rebalancing up from time to time. Yes, it's like I don't know if reset your router if it doesn't work. Allow yourself your a weekend, allow yourself uh two weeks if needed. I've worked, I mean I've studied now for my sailing. Uh I was gonna touch that.
SPEAKER_02
I was gonna tell you the captain, my captain!
SPEAKER_00
That's part of the plan, you know. It's beautiful. Yeah, I mean well, you're a captain now. I'm I'm I'm I'm a days keeper, but still, yes, I can do I can I can do I can do I think I can do it. You can use a sail for a sale. I can get I can get friends on a boat up to 24 meters, which is very big. Man, that's not doesn't need to be that big. But what I want is a boat that goes by wind, by the wind. Yes. So the it's a bit romantic, but you know, not having the technology around the silence, the silence, yourself, the nature, friends, a good piano of pasta, maybe a guitar, a guitar, some good drinks, very beautiful people around. It needs to be experienced from time to time. So when is the party? Oh probably. I'll be there, man. I'll make the pasta probably summer. Very nice, man. So this is um basically what's my my call, my echo. In my in my head, I always have that more present and present, and I need to kind of give back to this dual, let's say, I would say sometime conflictual, but dual soul nature of myself. The good the good profession, the good architect, but at the same time something else.
SPEAKER_02
Of course, and the soul requires nourishment as well. For sure. So was it around this time that uh Mr. Gialmini, no? No, that uh Mr.
SPEAKER_00
John Conte was born. Mr. Gio Conte, we should invite him. We should invite Mr. John Conte. Mr. John Conte. That was Mr. John Conte. That stage name. Yes, that stage name, John Conte, actually was born uh in JLT. In your living room, you had black gloves and you were cooking, probably you were preparing some. I was marinating the meat or marinating the meat that we would have had the same night. Yes. And I came earlier at your place because you went you wanted to show me um some instruments that you got in Armenia. Oh, yeah. Fantastic. And I came okay. Let's let's see what's got. And then we were talking at that time. At that time, a friend of mine, Andrea Chiarini, very correct, super now. Are you following me? It's very fun, it's really great. Good guitarist getting all over the stages all over the world, uh LA, uh everywhere in Europe, so he's on stage constantly. A guitarist, Andrea Chiarini. At that time, he was working at Universal Los Angeles, and he's he was studying with me at the conservatorium, but very good friend of mine. So at that time, he he asked me to record my own song where he would give me a reef, which is like a very normal reef, like it's uh, he said, This is your reef. And out of that reef, I would build my own song. Yes, and I've written my my song called Magic, and he's published it with universal music, and I was like, Oh my god, what's happening? You know, yes, that was thanks God, unfortunately, for what happened in the world, but it was COVID time. I had to I had time to do it. So I recorded that song. I sang it when I was very badly. I remember I had a bad, bad cough. I had COVID at that time. You can hear it. I don't like the way I've sung it. But anyway, that was a very good, fun time exercise to do it a bit more professionally, you know. So he would publish it. Uh, not Instagram, yeah, Instagram, some some kind of media thing, some uh Spotify, some publishing here and there. And I still had in mind that that was not my profession. I wanted to kind of draw a line between that side, the musician, and my career. Good or bad, I don't know if it was the right thing. But I was in your place and you suggested because one of your favorites. Give it a crooner, give it a crooner, give it a some kind of Italo American thing, and my favorite artist, John Lennon, and another favorite artist, Paolo Conte. So call it John Conte. Yes, Tick! It's fantastic. That was a really good call. I loved it. Actually, you were Johnny Conte or John? You can still be John Conte called Johnny Conte, but Johnny. So John Conte was born, um that at least the stage name, recording that piece, and and then and then it stayed there a little bit. But who knows, maybe. Who knows? Who knows? We're still young, my friend.
SPEAKER_02
We're still young, uh and the future belongs to us.
SPEAKER_00
Oh, why not?
SPEAKER_02
So this is uh this was uh that was a cool story. Um but you have played your music, going back to your music, yeah, uh, in other places as well. In fact, I remember um one point, one famous story is uh Together with Michele.
SPEAKER_00
Yes. Actually, first time I met Michele probably was the year that I came in Dubai in 2015. 13 or 14 max. We met accidentally in a home concert. So, you know, not home concert. Yeah, it's called home course and the group that was organizing home concert. Concerts through Meetup. You know the app meetup, yes. You know Meetup. Oh, I remember Meetup. It used to be quite popular, especially you know, people coming from all over the places in Dubai where you don't have a central square where you meet people or the bar, you know, like Europe. You just go out to meet people, and that's it. Here you had to you had to plan it a little bit, you had to put some effort, and Meetup was a fantastic way to meet people like-minded. Correct. Uh you know, you could put your passion music, cuisine, traveling, and I definitely met a lot of very good musicians or music lovers. That that was the first time, the first year. So, first year I go there and I meet a guy who's playing via via okay. I knew that song, and I started singing and he was playing. I said, Ah, are you in this? I say the met. We started uh playing you know a few gigs, very casual ones. I played in a restroom. Oh, some plays in the on the palm, and that's where I bought my first guitar, which is still with me. Nice. That was like Mikel organizing the game.
SPEAKER_02
She still sounds beautiful, that guitar, man. She's got something, I don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_00
That guitar still sounds beautiful, and that's that's another great memory. So I was playing some songs of mine, some covers, all uh music that I really play with big pleasure, and we sing together many many times. That was one of the gigs, and then we played together in one bar in Basha. You can sing it. Okay, that's these are these are fun nights.
SPEAKER_02
That one was so cool. So so Fabio invited me to a karaoke night organized by an Italian group called the Cugini of Carama.
SPEAKER_01
Correct.
SPEAKER_02
And these guys play at the oak bar, live oak bar, a live oak bar, and what they do, they give you background music, and you just karaoke music. Live background music with the drummer, with everything, until one point uh Fabio decided let's take over the stage. So we had you, me, Maria, and uh Federico on the T. Exactly, and um and you started playing a song that had nothing to do with Italian music, uh, which was The House of the Rising Sun. But man, we owned that stage that night. Yeah, well, that was cool. We had a great time. I think that's you know, just give us a couple of centimeters to stand on. I was you know, since that night, I'm still trying to see if we'll ever do it again.
SPEAKER_00
Maybe we should. We should. This these things are, I would say, more and more available in Dubai. Yes, you know, there are occasions for open mics, uh stages, bars that that are not the DIFC bars that you need to correct. Uh you need to.
SPEAKER_02
We got um there is a uh called Lucky Voice. Uh it's a karaoke bar in Barcia. Yeah, and these guys have open mics, but proper open mics. I I got to know this because we sponsor a couple of events with the guitar company. All right, and man, they're fantastic, they're set up amazing. Yeah, but I want to get back to you. So, 13 years in the UA. Yeah, you're here together with your wife and family. How was your experience here? Oh, and and you can summarize, you don't have to go into detail, but I I want to know as uh as an Italian who arrived here, you had a little bit of international exposure when you went to Prague, but then you come to and then you were in Abu Dhabi together with Joran. But then you come to Dubai when Dubai um post-crisis, I believe. You arrived to Dubai in 2000.
SPEAKER_00
Post-crisis, it was during the crisis. My my yeah, yeah, I arrived in Dubai post-crisis, but uh I have I've done that internship during basically the crisis. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02
So you arrived here post-crisis. So when Dubai is uh moving forward, rebuilding itself, and then obviously today where it stands, because today I I would say it's it's in a peak and and it keeps getting higher. So how was your your uh your time here? How did you see it? How did you manage it?
SPEAKER_00
Look, I had to adapt a lot because um any I think any Western and European needs to just understand the rules of the game, which are very clear and very uh inclusive in a way. The only one that would be left over is whoever uh whoever doesn't want to do anything. So if you've got one thing that you want to do, this place will give you the opportunity to do it.
SPEAKER_02
But you gotta work hard for it.
SPEAKER_00
You gotta you gotta work hard for it, but but it's there. I would say that it's it's there. Just knowing this, that uh if you really uh put the right effort to you know to pursue your goals and to uh basically show others that you've got something to give, um there will be always one person that's gonna be there for you and listen to you and take your CV and try you, you know. So that meritocratic and that you know the opportunity uh environment gave me the confidence that I did not need to be to reach a 40 years old uh professional like we do in like we do in Italy. In Italy, you are when you're 40, you're a young architect. Yes, here I've basically reached all of the stages, all the uh positions that I can achieve. Okay, it's it's not for everyone like that, but that was possible for me, so I don't see why it shouldn't not be possible for many many others. So they gave me the opportunity, regardless of my age, ethnicity, uh sex. I because I can tell you that why because my former uh my former chief head of department, uh a young, very very strong, charismatic, capable lady uh from India, very young, fantastic leader. I I've I've seen that y it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't really matter who you are. Results results. Give me bring me the bring the results. I don't know if it's everywhere true in all the companies, but at Umar it was like that. I've seen people going from being the uh the housekeeper, the the security stepping up to you know C-level positions. Our CEO is uh used to be the uh I think he used to be accountant or something like that. So that's that what we call the lift, you know, the that that type of uh lift that you can get uh if you really walk the line and you do things good and and you don't basically try to you know to get to the results going around things in the wrong way. So if you really show your um your goodwill genuinely, you can get to uh probably satisfactory uh you know uh results. That's what happened to me, and I'm very, very, very uh grateful to this place. So I can't say anything other than this place is a place of opportunities. It made my profession into something that became my my almost hobby at a certain time because I could not live without it. And it's a very I would say how would you call it? You know, when you got something, you start doing something, and you can't you can't stop doing it, but you also don't want to stop doing it. It's it took actually over my full in interest in what I was doing when I was getting up. Still now, after eight years anymore, I I wake up and I go to the office very happy. Yes, that doesn't mean that's gonna be that forever. But um you want to be there, you want to be there, you want to see what will happen next. Yeah, because you know that people would appreciate what you're doing. So that appreciation, which is not necessarily uh uh that is not accountable in in money, it's it's people saying thank you and uh uh you know having an environment that is all not always uh you know not always perfect, I would say. Uh there are grades, of course, but the there is a common sense that what you're doing, it's something that's gonna stay there forever, and you're gonna see the results when you are alive, which is not for all the architects in the world. Imagine like uh La Sagrada Familia. Yes. That's been there forever. Hundreds of years in hundreds of years. Imagine the arch I mean uh Gaudi, uh he designed it, but after Gaudi other architects, which is still very interesting, the stratification of cultures and things, but here it's so immediate that you almost get um that that that feeling you can't live without it. That's cool. So I have that type of uh feeling. Now that I've experienced that a lot, probably I will look into something a bit more uh slow down, and I will I have a recall for my background, as you say. Uh things that are slow are not necessarily bad. No, you know, slow foods.
SPEAKER_02
It takes uh anywhere between eight to twenty hours to make. Correct. So hey man, you got your passion, I got mine.
SPEAKER_00
So uh what's what was but how was Dubai? Dubai was Dubai was a thunder. Dubai was something so quick and strong that um that I don't even I didn't even stop and think about it. Now that you're asking me, I am starting to elaborate an idea about my past 13 years. But it it it sounds like to me, it sounds like it was yesterday when I came. So many things happened, many, many things had happened on a professional and personal level. Uh but it's a place where uh where parts of me will always stay, uh where I will go forever, forever to see the progress of my efforts, to enjoy the beautiful uh environment, you know, places that are becoming nicer and nicer, that's more welcoming. But I will always want to to uh bridge the gap. It's not a strong gap, but uh you know, to actually to foster the the bridge between my hometown or my country, Italy, and this place because of course because they they can really benefit from each other, of course. Uh they love each other in a way, they have things to uh to share, to trade, and also they have some something in common in terms of the people that really enjoy their families, they they have that type of uh you know laid back type of if you know you know approach to life.
SPEAKER_02
What you're describing to me, it's basically uh what I assume could have been the synergy between your mother, an artist, and a creative person, and your father, a rational mathematician, who they could be opposite, but then again, they managed to build something amazing, such as your family, and you took him out of that. So, on that note, man, I want to thank you for taking the time to be here today. I really enjoyed listening to your stories and your adventures, and and I am I am blessed to be part of some of those. And yes, I do live in an MR property, and I know that you had something to do with it as well that makes me even more happy about it. So, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you, Chris. It was really a pleasure to see you again.
SPEAKER_00
Same here, and it's always a pleasure to to spend time with you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
